Preview: Sail & Oar Camp Cruising, Part 2 – Sail More with an Electric Motor

31 Responses So Far to “Sail & Oar Camp Cruising, Part 2 – Sail More with an Electric Motor”

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  Drew Britten says:

  Steve,
  I recently purchased a used CY that did not come with a motor, and I am thinking about adding an EP Carry. Now that you have had yours for a few seasons, has your opinion about it having adequate power for a 19′ 6″ boat changed at all? I will be sailing in the Puget Sound, and expect to see similar tidal currents to what you experience in Maine.

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    Steve Stone says:

    Congrats Drew. I’d choose the same motor today. I can’t recall what I said in this video but the CY is definitely at the high end, or just beyond, what this motor was designed for. But for how I use it, it does well. Ya wouldn’t want to try and motor into a 20 knot wind and make much progress, but with wind why would you be using the motor anyway? Well, in an emergency situation of course, but that’s a trade-off, no motoring into heavy winds/seas. The best feature is being able to just reach back and pull/push the tiller to get the shaft in and out of the water.
    Lots of cruising situations require that getting onto and away from “beaches” here in Maine. Get the new bigger battery for double the life and a spare prop. I carry the older battery and the new battery both when camp cruising. If you want solar recharging they can steer you to a solar panel that is plug and play. I’m also extremely happy with the mount that Eric Blake built. It’s perfect.

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  Lannis Morris says:

  Hi Steve. I just purchased the ep carry for my recent build. A 19’ Ohio sharpie from Reuel Parker and his Sharpie book. This is my 2nd build of this very fine design. I sail from my dock on a long canal that empties into Christmas Bay near Galveston, Texas. That stretch of canal is not favorable for a 66 year old relic like myself. After watching your video, I became intrigued with this new possibility of propulsion.Joe and, I think Linda; sorry if not Linda; were awesome in helping me through the purchase process. They gave me the och discount as well. Yes, I am a member. Thanks for your great video that opened up new horizons for my wife and me.

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  Kevin Brennan says:

  Yup, having a small outboard, electric or gas, on a small sailboat allows you safety and luxury of going a bit further than you would want to row back, especially if your boat just doesn’t row that well,

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  Rick Clark says:

  Great looking electric motor and sailboat Steve…enjoy!!!

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  John Foote says:

  In almost every shot in the video, you were operating the boat minus the rudder. Was this done strictly for clarity in the video or is there some spatial conflicts between the rudder and motor propeller. It seams unsafe to me to have to keep removing and reinstalling the rudder every time you need to motor.

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    Steve Stone says:

    Good question John. In our particular setup the motor works well with or without the rudder in place. We took that into account when designing the motor mount for a variety of reasons including the reason you mention. We positioned the mount so that when the rudder is down it does not interfere with the prop or shaft of the motor.

    It’s nice to slide the motor (prop) down and use it at times when the rudder is not in place, such as the first bit getting off a shallow beach or off the anchor early in the a.m. when there’s no wind and the motor alone can steer the boat quite well on its own. In fact the motor can spin the boat in a circle within its own length as you see at the end of the video.

    The one scenario where the two things conflict/collide is when I’m getting off a shallow beach and the rudder happens to be (still) in from the approach (and therefor the rudder is still kicked up). If the rudder is up, it does get in the way of the prop, and if I’m motoring in reverse to get off of a shallow beach, then the rudder will kick hard to one side or the other so can and will hit the prop with force. In those circumstances I’ll just row, or take the rudder off, or row out just enough to pop the rudder down and then use the motor if needed/wanted.

    But if I’m going to be motoring any distance, then I prefer to put/leave the rudder in so that I can set the motor’s speed and its tiller position straight and sit comfortably anywhere the boat’s tiller reaches and steer with the boat’s/rudder’s tiller, which allows me to sit anywhere in the aft third of the boat in the Caledonia.

    I even tested putting the rudder in place WHILE the motor was in operation. Perhaps not the smartest thing to do and not recommended, especially since water is rushing over the rudder and could force the rudder into the prop, but my hands were nowhere near the prop and the motor will shut off instantly if the prop hits the rudder. I’d be more concerned with damaging the prop under that scenario so only did it a couple times just to see if it was possible.

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  Larry Cheek says:

  I was one of the early adopters, regrettably, of the Torqeedo in 2011. It had to be repaired three times under warranty and still remained unreliable, and neither the mfr nor the dealer was willing to undertake a remedy (i.e., a refund). After contemplating making a Youtube video of a ceremonial burial at sea, I finally gave it away and bought a 4-hp Tohatsu, which has served noisily but flawlessly for nine years.

  Still, I remain enthused and ultimately optimistic about the IDEA of electric power for small boats, and a 14.5′ Vivier Ilur that a friend and I are starting to build would seem to be a good candidate for EP Carry power. Quiet and nonpolluting power is precisely attuned to the character of small-boat sailing. But for electric outboards to become widely accepted the cost is going to have to come down. At $1600 the EP Carry is nearly twice the cost of a 2.5 hp air-cooled outboard from Suzuki, Tohatsu, Honda etc. Why are electric outboards remaining so stubbornly expensive? The long-term reliability also may be an open question. A well-maintained gasoline outboard, used as auxiliary power on a sailboat, will easily last twenty years. Are these pioneer electric outboard mfrs thinking about their products in those terms? Based on the five- to ten-year life cycles of most of the appliances and electronic devices we buy for our homes, I remain to be convinced. But I’m still hopeful.

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    Steve Stone says:

    Hey Larry. I was a laggard in adopting an electric motor for many of the reasons you mention. I had also heard of service and reliability issues with the early electric outboards. Granted, we’re still in the early days of the gas to electric conversion, both technical and psychological, but these motors have come along way since 2011.

    One thing I took into account in thinking about gas vs, electric, and the higher initial investment of electric compared to gas, is the estimation of the cost of gas over the years. I estimated I’d spend $60 to $100 year on gas for the motor, not including the gas for the car to drive to get the gas for the boat. Then there’s the time and hassle factor of going to get ethanol-free gas as the last minute thing I forgot for the cruise as I’m losing the tide/current/wind I was needing to get out of the reach. It doesn’t take too many trips to the gas station each year to start paying off the difference between the initial investment of gas vs. electric. My cost calculations rely on using mostly solar to recharge, which we did almost exclusively this summer. No clue what it costs to charge the battery using the wall outlet, but I’d guess it’s not much???

    Time will tell how many seasons the electric motors last, and how reliable they are, but we did take that into account and queried several EP Carry owners who’d had several years experience with their motors before deciding whether to get involved at this level.

    All that was on top of my just not being able to bring myself to put gas on a little open boat when there was a decent chance that an electric motor would do the job.

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  Mark Hartsuyker says:

  I bought this motor system about a year ago and have been really pleased with its performance. I too own a Caledonia Yawl, but in my case, with an engine well in the cockpit. The length of the standard shaft happened to be perfect for the entire length of the propeller throw to stick below the hull line of the boat. According to the designer, this gives minimal drag with maximum thrust.
  Regarding range on a boat this size (19′ 6″, 5-6 miles over approximately an hour at full speed when calm is the max range I have tried, and I still had battery power left to spare when done.
  By the way, the video is really accurate and a fine review. As a current owner of this outboard, I felt it did a great job of showing off this fine motor system.

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    Jim Dumser says:

    Thanks for the follow up information Mark. I think this certainly answers my question and suggests that the EP is able to push the CY at close to hull speed too. I would also be looking to put it in the well.

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  Ian Hendrie says:

  Thank you for this followup. I looked into electric motors a few years ago but wasn’t impressed with their features and complexity (gps etc). This looks perfect for us. Grew up with outboards and still love them so I can’t appreciate the polarization. I want to do my bit for the environment after a misspent youth and this looks great.

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  Andrew Porter says:

  It occurred to me that with some modification the prop might be used to charge the battery while sailing. I left a question on the EP Carry website asking if they had any future plans to do this.

  Andrew

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  John Sims says:

  soooooooo
  last year i bought a Newport Vessels salt water 82# thrust trolling motor (25#s) and a 78# deep cycle battery for my Eastport dink
  yup, Way overkill! both motor & battery are Excellent quality & i recommend them highly BUT, you know the rest – i never use them!
  when i saw this EP Carry video just now i realized that i am WAY behind in my understanding of e motors!
  soooooooo yep, just bought it! Thanks OCH!!

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  Rob Macks says:

  I have a CY with motor trunk and a Torqueedo 1003 Travel. The motor’s great. I’ve not been happy putting the motor in and out when needed without the ability to kick up and just leave on the boat.
  This looks like the answer to my needs. Do you offer a plan/template for the motor bracket you used? I’d rather not reinvent your wheel. Anyone looking for a Torqueedo Travel?

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    Steve Stone says:

    Our hands are a little full at the moment, but if you give us a little time I bet Eric can come up with that Rob. We’ll take it off over the enter and pattern it.

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      Rob Macks says:

      Great! I’ll have another spring project. Thanks for posting. I’ve been frustrated dealing with the motor on my CY. Having the ability to leave it in place and have it kick up and down gives me renewed enthusiasm. Seeing your motor mount and this motor on a Caledonia Yawl clinches the deal!

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        Mark Hartsuyker says:

        In some ways, I would not mind trading my engine well for that external stern mount shown in the video. The engine well means that in order to get it out of the water, I have to slide it along its shaft (only up/down). The tolerances are such (size of hull hole & size of well) that there is little or no room to swing the motor, as demonstrated in the video with that ingenious external mount.

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  Axel Ziegler says:

  I use a Vermont Dory for sailing. This year I installed a small electric motor (Vanquita from E-Propulsion). What I became hooked on is e-motorsailing. This motor is silent. Gliding along with very little wind, actually producing my own wind…great. I thing sailing and (silent) e-motoring fits together extremely well.

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  Wolfgang Doughty says:

  Welcome to the dark side….Luke

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  GEORGE VELBECK says:

  Here’s another use of the motor when you run up on a sandbar. What really worked for me very nicely especially when I was sailing alone in my 20 foot Dory was I would set the motor down for running then put in reverse then by “brut force” I would rock the boat from side to side as the electric motor kept pulling me off of th sand bar. As long as you hadn’t ran up on to the sand bar with too much speed- with in minutes, I was off of the sandbar.
  George Velbeck, Punta Gorda FL

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  Martin (Marty) Casey says:

  A very timely video and review…I just took delivery of an EP Carry last week for my Caledonia and have just completed fabricating a bracket to hang on the aft port rail. I’ll be giving the motor a trial run today before putting the boat away for the winter. I had originally made an inboard motor well when building the boat but just couldn’t get myself to cut a hole in the bottom. The motor appears to be a gem! Nice finishes and workmanship top to bottom. I only learned of the EP Carry on the 1st video. That was enough for me to order. Will report later on the shakedown run.

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    Steve Stone says:

    Great Marty, we’d all be interested in your top speed at full throttle with no wind/current if you have Navionics or a GPS.

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      Martin (Marty) Casey says:

      Steve
      I just returned from my trial cruise with the motor. Glassy water conditions, no currents full throttle I had 3.5kts. by GPS. At about 1/2 throttle I was doing about 2.5. I noticed if I turned the throttle down further I didn’t seem to lose speed proportionately. I think my CY is probably a bit heavier than the average due to a very hard (and heavy) mahogany species I used for interior seating, floor frames, stems,keel etc. I wasn’t very concerned about the boat weight when building.
      Other observations – the “throttle knob” is very sensitive. One should be sure to remove the safety magnet “key” before tilting the motor out of the water.My outboard bracket worked fine. It is a bit forward but I don’t see any problems that could come from that. I can actually use it as a stern thruster! I didn’t want to permanently attach a mounting bracket so I made mine easily removed with 2 bolts. And as it turned out I can use it on either side of the boat. I will need to create some way of locking or holding the motor in the “up” position. Or I can just dismount it and store in aft area of the boat. My primary use will be to get home when the wind quits. Thanks for everything!

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    William Gehring says:

    Marty, did you build a mount similar to the Eric Blake one in the video, or did you go with something simpler? On my CY I’ve been hanging a tolling motor from the starboard side using a couple of temporary pieces of wood saddlebagged over the rai with webbingl. Works (i.e., didn’t lose the motor over the side), but needs improvement. Thanks in advance for any advice.
    Cheers
    Bill Gehring

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    Marc LaFrance says:

    I would really be interested in seeing your mount for this motor.

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      Steve Stone says:

      Hi Marc. Check out the video above in “Related Videos” titled: Designing with Mock-Up Patterns & Prototypes, A Motor Mount for a Caledonia Yawl

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  Peter Brackenbury says:

  That is pretty cool. It’s so hard to stay open-minded on a topic that is so polarizing. I struggle to be a purist too much. I really liked how you pointed out these positives that I had never thought of before. I like how you slipped in drone footage and shown that it can illustrate its (both the motor and the drone) usefulness without saying a word. Well done!

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  Jim Dumser says:

  Great review and adaptation for use on sail and oar boat.

  I wonder if at full throttle without wind or tide the EP can push the Caledonia Yawl close to hull speed? I would love to know the range for the EP in your typical usage. (1 hour at full throttle = 5->6 miles?)

  This seems like a great solution for those wanting clean, quiet power in this category to get away from the launch ramp and out sailing quickly and easily.

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    Steve Stone says:

    It’s a good question Jim. In real world scenarios I found we almost always set it at half throttle and only boosted to full throttle occasionally. Half throttle some how gives about 80% of the speed of full throttle with the magic of physics that are beyond my grasp. So my mental note became that I had about an hour and a half of power to be safe and have a bit left over.

    I don’t recall every using the motor for the full life of the battery all at once, as we never had that far to go or the wind picked up or shifted so we could sail. When that happened, we’d plug the battery back into the solar charger, so it was all a bit more fluid than calculating a specific one-time range. In our scenarios, the motor always seemed to provide the extra little temporary boost to get around a point before the wind and tide shifted or something like that rather than a long motor to a new destination like happens in cruising bigger boats.

    I recall checking top speed at full throttle and should have noted that, but didn’t. I’d say it’s a bit lower than your estimate, say 4.5 knots. But we were often heavily loaded so maybe you’re right. Joe will probably read this and put it into his handy calculator which I’ve found to be as accurate as my real world experience.

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      Jim Dumser says:

      Thanks for the follow up Steve. Keep up the great work and fantastic content.